Comments on: RED V-RAPTOR [X] 8K VV Lab Test – Dynamic Range and Exposure Latitude https://www.cined.com/red-v-raptor-x-8k-vv-lab-test-dynamic-range-and-exposure-latitude/ Fri, 22 Mar 2024 17:11:38 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.4.2 By: Daniel Rozsnyo https://www.cined.com/red-v-raptor-x-8k-vv-lab-test-dynamic-range-and-exposure-latitude/#comment-95510 Fri, 22 Mar 2024 17:11:38 +0000 https://www.cined.com/?p=330760#comment-95510 In reply to Paul Curtis.

Hi Paul, I was referring to two things by this wording:

First of all – the silicon is fabricated only with columns, and in a different layer a set of grids is made – like if you paint rows and columns on the opposite side of a paper – these never physically connect in order to make the pixels – only if you see through it, you can notice the imaginary squares. The only pixel-physical thing on the CCD is the color filter array and the micro lenses, but not the light sensitive pixels.

Secondly, you almost got it right – the pixels are created by means of an electric field in the multi-phase grid perpendicular to columns. These phases (or clocks) are the ones that virtually split the sensing area into rows while exposure happens. And during the readout, the phases are “walking” and pushing the charge towards the edge of the sensor when there is then another set of similar structure, to serialize the charges into a single signal (but real sensor has usually 2, 4 or more such taps, easily benefiting from the symmetry of the chip). Its not a simple pulse – but a state (or combination of those multi-phase clock lines) that make it to do something.

This charge pushing by electric field is somewhat similar to peristaltic pumps – in sense that you can see how analog and continuous the process is, not that there are some discrete cups to shift the data digitally around.

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By: Paul Curtis https://www.cined.com/red-v-raptor-x-8k-vv-lab-test-dynamic-range-and-exposure-latitude/#comment-95497 Fri, 22 Mar 2024 09:39:36 +0000 https://www.cined.com/?p=330760#comment-95497 In reply to Daniel Rozsnyo.

CCD and no pixels? Whilst they are read in columns and summed up that way (hence vertical streaks) nowhere have I ever read or been told that the CCD sensors are not ‘pixel’ based? Can you reference this – just curious? So there are no pixel micro lenses on a CCD? Or you’re just saying it’s a continual rail underneath the pixels where charge is summed and divided by a clock pulse? (Not that it’s important but I do still like the colours of a CCD!)

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By: Paul Curtis https://www.cined.com/red-v-raptor-x-8k-vv-lab-test-dynamic-range-and-exposure-latitude/#comment-95496 Fri, 22 Mar 2024 09:34:04 +0000 https://www.cined.com/?p=330760#comment-95496 In reply to Steve Oakley.

AFAIK most of the bigger camera manufacturers have licensed compressed RAW, there have been enough nods from the Red camp to suggest that.

So the choice not to is marketing and the fact that most people just don’t need it. Also the extra hardware to do real time compression inside small cameras is power hungry and a heat generator.

Mirrorless cameras just don’t really need it – most users are not plugging into a complete end to end RAW pipeline either.

The various log codecs these days are very good, robust and the software support is so much better than it was a few years ago

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By: Paul Curtis https://www.cined.com/red-v-raptor-x-8k-vv-lab-test-dynamic-range-and-exposure-latitude/#comment-95494 Fri, 22 Mar 2024 07:53:39 +0000 https://www.cined.com/?p=330760#comment-95494 Second time writing this because if you’re not signed in on this then when you create an account you lose the comment…

I was asking whether you had considered changing the way the waveform screenshot is shown because even if you have a really clean camera in shadows, because those stops are all log then you still couldn’t see. If you have a waveform that had exp applied to it to that each stop was the same size it might visually show more? Or at least expand the image under 256? It’s just that most arguing about range is really subjective based on the shadows. It would be a nice way to compare if that was visually obvious?

Also I’m undecided whether not include the reconstructed stops is fair, in real shooting scenes you do want highlights to white most of the time and they are included in real shots. But I also understand why you may not want to include them. My only observation is that you don’t know for sure whether other cameras are reconstructing in their SDKs, because they may choose to not go to white. In fact I think the older reds did try to maintain the colour gradient into the highlights. If a reconstruction did attempt to maintain the same colour gradient then your test would show as real stops despite being reconstructed. If that makes sense?

Great test as always..!

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By: BOUNCE https://www.cined.com/red-v-raptor-x-8k-vv-lab-test-dynamic-range-and-exposure-latitude/#comment-95490 Fri, 22 Mar 2024 03:49:57 +0000 https://www.cined.com/?p=330760#comment-95490 In reply to Tim Naylor.

A mechanical shutter is not a global shutter… it’s a rolling shutter. So it can never be the best global shutter.

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By: Relativ Aktiv https://www.cined.com/red-v-raptor-x-8k-vv-lab-test-dynamic-range-and-exposure-latitude/#comment-95489 Thu, 21 Mar 2024 21:08:09 +0000 https://www.cined.com/?p=330760#comment-95489 In reply to Howard.

+3 stops like RED is saying. They merge 2 pics together and one of it is 3 stops underexposed.

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By: CineD Focus Check Ep04 – Is AI Taking Over? – Funtechnow https://www.cined.com/red-v-raptor-x-8k-vv-lab-test-dynamic-range-and-exposure-latitude/#comment-95485 Thu, 21 Mar 2024 18:07:06 +0000 https://www.cined.com/?p=330760#comment-95485 […] https://www.cined.com/red-v-raptor-x-8k-vv-lab-test-dynamic-range-and-exposure-latitude/ […]

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By: Howard https://www.cined.com/red-v-raptor-x-8k-vv-lab-test-dynamic-range-and-exposure-latitude/#comment-95481 Thu, 21 Mar 2024 17:45:49 +0000 https://www.cined.com/?p=330760#comment-95481 It’s disappointing that extended highlights wasn’t tested. Being in Beta just means that it’s being tested in the feature’s worst publicly available form.

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By: Tim Naylor https://www.cined.com/red-v-raptor-x-8k-vv-lab-test-dynamic-range-and-exposure-latitude/#comment-95471 Wed, 20 Mar 2024 20:59:15 +0000 https://www.cined.com/?p=330760#comment-95471 I expect Arri at some point to reintroduce their mechanical shutter tech they used on special Alexa models to an LF version of the Arri 35 chip. This will end all discussions of who’s the King of the Hill. It’ll have the DR of the Arri 35 and the best global shutter capture out there all on an LF sized sensor.

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By: Relativ Aktiv https://www.cined.com/red-v-raptor-x-8k-vv-lab-test-dynamic-range-and-exposure-latitude/#comment-95468 Wed, 20 Mar 2024 18:01:39 +0000 https://www.cined.com/?p=330760#comment-95468 In reply to Sight Sound.

Just look at the CVP video on Youtube. Right now the extended highlights can be used only for non moving subjects. RED itself stated that only “excessive movement” will lead to artifacts ;)

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